Changes on US team for Worlds

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Ross' problem was that he came along about 20 years too late. Back in the day, you finished 1,2 3 at Nationals, you went 1,2,3 to the Olympics.

Little by little, for better or worse, the rules started to change. The USFSA began to consider results at recent international competitions as well. By 2018, the rules were pretty much, we will do as we please. It pleased the USFSA to put Adam and Jason ahead of Ross because they did pretty well on the Grand Prix. They put Vincent ahead of Ross because they thought that he had a higher scoring potential.

This has (so far) proved to be a solid call. Assuming no meltdowns, Chen and Zhou will guarantee 3 spots, where as Miner for Zhou very well could have compromised that if Miner weren't able to replicate his Nationals skates internationally.

 

[concorde]

Ross' problem was that he came along about 20 years too late. Back in the day, you finished 1,2 3 at Nationals, you went 1,2,3 to the Olympics.

Little by little, for better or worse, the rules started to change. The USFSA began to consider results at recent international competitions as well. By 2018, the rules were pretty much, we will do as we please. It pleased the USFSA to put Adam and Jason ahead of Ross because they did pretty well on the Grand Prix. They put Vincent ahead of Ross because they thought that he had a higher scoring potential.

Let's not forget that Vincent was bumped last year for Jason. I always thought that was a bad decision but most posters here feel otherwise.

My guess is when assigning slots, USFS does not weigh BOW and Nationals placement equally. My guess is it is something like 60% BOW and 40% placement.

Years ago, there was no GP series so it made lots of sense to only go with Nationals placement.

 

[karne]

Little by little, for better or worse, the rules started to change. The USFSA began to consider results at recent international competitions as well. By 2018, the rules were pretty much, we will do as we please. It pleased the USFSA to put Adam and Jason ahead of Ross because they did pretty well on the Grand Prix. They put Vincent ahead of Ross because they thought that he had a higher scoring potential.

There's nothing wrong with that. The USFS decided that it should no longer be that you could pull one good skate out of your backside at US Nationals and expect to go to huge events. Factoring in previous competitions is really not a bad way to choose - that way you're at least choosing on some semblance of form.

Max did not skate his best last night, but I will freely argue that he still scored higher than Ross would have - always remembering that Max is at Worlds because ROSS CHOSE NOT TO GO.

Let's not forget that Vincent was bumped last year for Jason. I always thought that was a bad decision but most posters here feel otherwise.

And it still proves to have been a good decision. Jason delivered what the USFS needed him to and there's no guarantee Vincent would have. If people think otherwise, they have short memories that erased Vincent's Senior GP debut...

 

[Mathman]

There's nothing wrong with that.

I didn't say there was anything wrong with that. I said that Ross was born twenty years too late if he wanted to play by the old rules.

To me, the tension between the two systems is, "do the right thing" versus "win medals." I can't decide which is more important.

 

[concorde]

There's nothing wrong with that. The USFS decided that it should no longer be that you could pull one good skate out of your backside at US Nationals and expect to go to huge events. Factoring in previous competitions is really not a bad way to choose - that way you're at least choosing on some semblance of form.

Max did not skate his best last night, but I will freely argue that he still scored higher than Ross would have - always remembering that Max is at Worlds because ROSS CHOSE NOT TO GO.



And it still proves to have been a good decision. Jason delivered what the USFS needed him to and there's no guarantee Vincent would have. If people think otherwise, they have short memories that erased Vincent's Senior GP debut...

We will never know if it was the right decision since Vincent was not given the chance. We do know that Vincent made lemonade out of lemons and won Junior Worlds.

 

[Mathman]

This has (so far) proved to be a solid call.

Vincent did great at the Olympics. He is only five quads away from a silver medal at worlds.

However, when we say that the USFSA made a "solid call," this means that we have already given up on considering the relevance of the fairness issue. I am resigned.

 

[karne]

I didn't say there was anything wrong with that. I said that Ross was born twenty years too late if he wanted to play by the old rules.

True. He also had his head stuck in the sand if he thought they were going to. USFS was very open about BOW and Ross was given the chance to build one. He didn't.

We will never know if it was the right decision since Vincent was not given the chance. We do know that Vincent made lemonade out of lemons and won Junior Worlds.

And we also know that when he made his Senior debut on the GP, he had poor performances with a lot of URs and even scored an FS PCS of 69 at one event. I think we know that it was the right decision now.

 

[concorde]

True. He also had his head stuck in the sand if he thought they were going to. USFS was very open about BOW and Ross was given the chance to build one. He didn't.



And we also know that when he made his Senior debut on the GP, he had poor performances with a lot of URs and even scored an FS PCS of 69 at one event. I think we know that it was the right decision now.

Clearly Vincent is a late season bloomer.
Regarding whether the right decision was made, I think it is best to agree to disagree.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Vincent did great at the Olympics. He is only five quads away from a silver medal at worlds.

However, when we say that the USFSA made a "solid call," this means that we have already given up on considering the relevance of the fairness issue. I am resigned.

LOL "only 5 quads"! Although, if anyone can, it's Zhou! Don't wanna put too much pressure or jinx him, but a medal at his first senior Worlds would be AMAZING.

 

[Lester]

True. He also had his head stuck in the sand if he thought they were going to. USFS was very open about BOW and Ross was given the chance to build one. He didn't.

When reading posts like that I get the impression that Ross didn't do well in his earlier competitions on purpose and how dare he skate well at Nationals

I personally think the fall season is not as important as the second half of the season. And while I think that it is possible that Ross mightn't have done as well as Adam at the Olympics or even as Max here, to me these predetermined Worlds spots are a major motivation killer. Look at how many people passed on Worlds participation in the men's event alone. This is Worlds!! And with some of the leaders in the discipline gone a major chance for super placement.

 

[skylark]

this could be a new thread idea for after worlds to dispell any lingering bad feelings...

I love the way you think! :luv17:

 

[oatmella]

LOL "only 5 quads"! Although, if anyone can, it's Zhou! Don't wanna put too much pressure or jinx him, but a medal at his first senior Worlds would be AMAZING.

yeah this. Only 5 lol

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Let's not forget that Vincent was bumped last year for Jason. I always thought that was a bad decision but most posters here feel otherwise.

My guess is when assigning slots, USFS does not weigh BOW and Nationals placement equally. My guess is it is something like 60% BOW and 40% placement.

Years ago, there was no GP series so it made lots of sense to only go with Nationals placement.

Vincent COULD have done enough for 3 spots last year, but Brown was the right decision in retrospect. I'm glad Vincent is fully prepared this year... last year, had he gone, his first senior impression would have been that of a junior skater.

 

[oatmella]

ok seriously - what benefit is there for sending Ross instead of Vincent for Olympics and Worlds other than the silver medalist gets to go. It’s valid that USFSA has some concern about the future of the US men and placement at OG and worlds. Vincent is seriously hungry, working so hard and seems to me the only one who has the desire, motivation and tech to possibly challenge Nathan. Seriously how many more years do people expect him to be held down - yes he is just 17 but his tech is right up there with anyone in the world, forget about just the US.
I didn’t love that Vincent didn’t get to go to worlds last year, but it made sense with Olympic spots at stake.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

ok seriously - what benefit is there for sending Ross instead of Vincent for Olympics and Worlds other than the silver medalist gets to go.

The women's silver medalist got to go to the Olympics (and participate in the team event) and Worlds. She arguably had a more underwhelming season than Ross prior to Nationals. So the silver medal matters a lot for some but not at all for others.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

The women's silver medalist placed 4th at a really stacked GP and came in with a triple axel.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

The women's silver medalist placed 4th at a really stacked GP and came in with a triple axel.

I'm not saying Mirai didn't deserve the assignments she got (except maybe the team event, which could have gone to an ice dance pair). It's just unfortunate that one skater can have an ok season, win a silver medal at Nationals, and get all the best assignments while a similarly situated skater gets only 4CC. Also, Ross came in with a quad while two guys picked ahead of him haven't landed one in recent memory.

 

[jaylee]

oh yes, they are BFF, they are all so friendly to each other, that even Zach gave to Maia and Alex HIS bronze medal at Worlds 2017
Zach D. : “I wish the Shibutanis were [in Milan] because last year I gave them my medal,” Donohue said, “and I don’t plan on doing that this year.” :whack:
http://olympics.nbcsports.com/2018/...dance-preview/?utm_tags=oly1001&sf185155834=1

Me thinks Donohue should wait until after he has "his" world medal to make a statement like that.

 

[evasorange]

oh yes, they are BFF, they are all so friendly to each other, that even Zach gave to Maia and Alex HIS bronze medal at Worlds 2017
Zach D. : “I wish the Shibutanis were [in Milan] because last year I gave them my medal,” Donohue said, “and I don’t plan on doing that this year.” :whack:
http://olympics.nbcsports.com/2018/...dance-preview/?utm_tags=oly1001&sf185155834=1

Ok this is seriously making me LOL. It’s like there was a medal engraved with “Zach Donohue” on it but at the last second, conniving Alex and Maia pulled the invisible string to make poor hapless Zack fall. Whatever helps you sleep at night dude

 

[Barb]

Me thinks Donohue should wait until after he has "his" world medal to make a statement like that.

I know, but even after to get a World medal, that comment would be totally inappropriate. I mean, Did Zach ever say that Maia gave them her national gold medal?, I am pretty sure he thinks that he won that medal, he does not think that Maia gave it them.