2014 Skate America Pairs FS 10/26

[Meoima]

Just wanted to say that Kavaguti/Smirnov have joined the exclusive group to have won all GP's (not GPF, though)
SC 2008
CoR 2010
NHK 2011
CoC 2011
TEB 2012
SA 2014

Wow!! How many skaters and pairs have won all the GPs? :yay:

 

[Blades of Passion]

I feel so bad for Hao Zhang. He is such an amazing pairs skater and never has a worthy partner.

Excellent skate by Kavaguti/Smirnov. Realllly hoping they win the World title this year. What a stunning comeback that would be!

 

[bramweld]

I feel so bad for Hao Zhang. He is such an amazing pairs skater and never has a worthy partner.

Excellent skate by Kavaguti/Smirnov. Realllly hoping they win the World title this year. What a stunning comeback that would be!

+10000000

 

[sequinsgalore]

Wow!! How many skaters and pairs have won all the GPs? :yay:

On top of my head

Shen/Zhao have won all, incl. GPF and Bofrost Cup (it used to be GP way back)
Savchenko/Szolkowy have won all, incl GPF
Mao Asada has won all, incl GPF

 

[Mao88]

PAIRS FREE SKATE - VIDEOS & RESULT

1. Yuko KAVAGUTI / Alexander SMIRNOV (RUS) - 209.16 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
2. Haven DENNEY / Brandon FRAZIER (USA) - 183.84 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
3. Cheng PENG / Hao ZHANG (CHN) - 182.43 Free Skate
4. Alexa SCIMECA / Chris KNIERIM (USA) - 168.62 Free Skate
5. Madeline AARON / Max SETTLAGE (USA) - 160.04 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
6. Vanessa GRENIER / Maxime DESCHAMPS (CAN) - 143.59 Free Skate
7. Annabelle PRÖLSS / Ruben BLOMMAERT (GER) - 136.35 Free Skate
8. Miriam ZIEGLER / Severin KIEFER (AUT) - 135.83 Free Skate

 

[gold12345]

Just wanted to say that Kavaguti/Smirnov have joined the exclusive group to have won all GP's (not GPF, though)

SC 2008
CoR 2010
NHK 2011
CoC 2011
TEB 2012
SA 2014

Wow, that's a really cool accomplishment, thanks for pointing that out. I'm very happy for them, especially given all that they've been through. The fact that they're such veterans absolutely showed in how they skated here, and this was the best I've seen them skate in a long time.


A note on the protocols... The levels given for twists made much more sense today for Kavaguti/Smirnov and Peng/Zhang, but Denney/Frazier again inexplicably received Lvl 4. I'm not disputing their overall finish, as P/Z unfortunately had a rough go at it (and Scimeca/Knierim had an even rougher go at it), but it would be nice to see the levels right. Giving skaters incorrect levels bothers me even more than oddities in GOE or missed UR calls because levels are essentially an objective thing. D/F's twist isn't any different than last week when they competed, or any other time, and yet it's called Lvl 4 here for the first time and given huge GOE despite the fact that it's not a real fantastic element for them (I guess it's similar to how Cesario doesn't get her blatant flutz called here either). In the past, I don't remember pair events having issues getting the twist levels right like this, as it is a relatively black and white thing in most cases. Hopefully they'll get it right next week.

I feel so bad for Hao Zhang. He is such an amazing pairs skater and never has a worthy partner.

Peng/Zhang have really gotten thrust into the pairs spotlight quickly, which is something he is used to, but she is not. He's also more than a decade older than her and has a lot more experience. He seems like he's caring and patient with her, but it still must be harder for them to relate to each other both on and off the ice. She's also at an age where she may be growing, and you never know if that may be throwing her off a bit. She has had some jump troubles before, but this competition was especially rough for her. They'll have to turn the page and move on from this event. One encouraging thing is that they still scored well with big mistakes.

 

[FlattFan]

This is the best K/S has ever skated. Over the years they've had some great programs. If this is Tamara's last great team, I hope they will go down in history as one of Tamara's premier teams. They deserve it.

 

[mikiandorocks]

I am so happy for K&S! That was quite a fs.

 

[cptnhastings]

A note on the protocols... The levels given for twists made much more sense today for Kavaguti/Smirnov and Peng/Zhang, but Denney/Frazier again inexplicably received Lvl 4. I'm not disputing their overall finish, as P/Z unfortunately had a rough go at it (and Scimeca/Knierim had an even rougher go at it), but please get the levels right. Giving skaters incorrect levels bothers me even more than oddities in GOE or missed UR calls because levels are essentially an objective thing. D/F's twist isn't any different than last week when they competed, or any other time, and yet it's called Lvl 4 here for the first time and given huge GOE despite the fact that it's not a real fantastic element for them (I guess it's similar to how Cesario doesn't get her blatant flutz called here either). In the past, I don't remember pair events having issues getting the twist levels right like this, as it is a relatively black and white thing in most cases. Hopefully they'll get it right next week.

I'm no expert, but I think D/Fs level on the twist was fine. They needed 4 of 5 of:

1) Lady’s split position (each leg at least 45° from the body axis)
2) Catching the lady at the side of the waist without her hand(s)/arm(s)/any part of upper body touching the man
3) Lady’s position in the air with arm(s) above the head (minimum one full revolution)
4) Difficult take-off (steps/skating moves executed by both partners immediately preceding take-off)
5) Man’s arms sideways, being straight or almost straight, reaching at least shoulder level after release of the lady

D/F had 2, 4, 5 almost definitely. I'm not sure about 1 and 3 but both are conceivable. (K/S didn't get 2 and 3 I'd guess. She smacked down into him for sure and just stuck her arms up at the end.)

I think the splits look identical this week and last, but the arms go up earlier today than in the FS last week. I'm guessing tech guy/girl gave them the arms up this week but not last week and that's the difference.

In any event, I don't think it's as objective as some people think. That whole 45 degree angle isn't easy to figure out by sight. Do they pull out a protractor when looking at the monitor?

Again, I'm no expert here at all so I'm not sure I'm interpreting that all correctly.

And I remember frequently wondering about the twist levels last season so I know it's been a subject of contention before. That's how I knew where to find the criteria.

 

[SubRosa]

Just wanted to say that Kavaguti/Smirnov have joined the exclusive group to have won all GP's (not GPF, though)

Maybe this will be their year for the GPF!

At this event we saw a successful 4twist (P/Z) and 4throw (K/S). Wonder how long it will be before a team manages to do both in one program. (Or has it already been done?)

 

[s_parks]

Maybe this will be their year for the GPF!

At this event we saw a successful 4twist (P/Z) and 4throw (K/S). Wonder how long it will be before a team manages to do both in one program. (Or has it already been done?)

I don't think so. Sui/Han came quite close once or twice; the quad throw was always a bit two footed.

 

[Shani]

Superb skating by deserved gold medalists. Also, by deserved silver medalists. Were the silver medalists the best at each individual element in the field, No. But they delivered under pressure and as season goes will improve. Huge congrats to them and to winners for fabulous skates on different levels of expectation. Hope to see Yuko in 1st place at worlds. And Haven and Branden medal again soon.

 

[Skater Boy]

I feel so bad for Hao Zhang. He is such an amazing pairs skater and never has a worthy partner.

Excellent skate by Kavaguti/Smirnov. Realllly hoping they win the World title this year. What a stunning comeback that would be!

Don't feel sorry for Zhang; he got a silver at anolympic game under controversy - they had a huge break after a bad mistake (fall). The new hair stye is a bit unsettling - I think it is meant for someone else or maybe it was a nexperiment. Sometiems his current teamlooks a bit scarey like he doing something illegal with a minor and that image is NOT a good one.

 

[Mao88]

PAIRS FREE SKATE - VIDEOS & RESULT - updated

1. Yuko KAVAGUTI / Alexander SMIRNOV (RUS) - 209.16 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
2. Haven DENNEY / Brandon FRAZIER (USA) - 183.84 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
3. Cheng PENG / Hao ZHANG (CHN) - 182.43 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
4. Alexa SCIMECA / Chris KNIERIM (USA) - 168.62 Free Skate
5. Madeline AARON / Max SETTLAGE (USA) - 160.04 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
6. Vanessa GRENIER / Maxime DESCHAMPS (CAN) - 143.59 Free Skate
7. Annabelle PRÖLSS / Ruben BLOMMAERT (GER) - 136.35 Free Skate
8. Miriam ZIEGLER / Severin KIEFER (AUT) - 135.83 Free Skate

 

[gold12345]

I'm no expert, but I think D/Fs level on the twist was fine. They needed 4 of 5 of:

1) Lady’s split position (each leg at least 45° from the body axis)
2) Catching the lady at the side of the waist without her hand(s)/arm(s)/any part of upper body touching the man
3) Lady’s position in the air with arm(s) above the head (minimum one full revolution)
4) Difficult take-off (steps/skating moves executed by both partners immediately preceding take-off)
5) Man’s arms sideways, being straight or almost straight, reaching at least shoulder level after release of the lady

D/F had 2, 4, 5 almost definitely. I'm not sure about 1 and 3 but both are conceivable. (K/S didn't get 2 and 3 I'd guess. She smacked down into him for sure and just stuck her arms up at the end.)

I think the splits look identical this week and last, but the arms go up earlier today than in the FS last week. I'm guessing tech guy/girl gave them the arms up this week but not last week and that's the difference.

Thanks for posting the criteria. The "arms above the head" feature has to be done while the girl is twisting in the air. It must be a really hard feature to do on a 3twist because I can't think of anyone that attempts it aside from Sui/Han. So to get Level 4, the split feature is what D/F (and Peng/Zhang in the SP) received credit for here, even though neither of those teams shows a real split. And new this year is that the legs need to be relatively straight for the split to count, and Denney's leg bends significantly just about immediately. Peng/Zhang really don't do a split either, in their 4twist or their 3twist, but at least their twist was called Lvl 2 today. I looked up D/F's protocols from their first two events this year, and their twist was called either Lvl 3 or Lvl 2, and nothing is different about it since then, so the Lvl 4 both days here was odd. I'm assuming Kavaguti/Smirnov always lose credit for bullet point #2, but they somehow were given credit for it here in the SP (which gave them Lvl 4), but then for the LP, they were back to getting Lvl 3 again, which is their typical twist level. Their twist looked very similar both days to me.

In any event, I don't think it's as objective as some people think. That whole 45 degree angle isn't easy to figure out by sight. Do they pull out a protractor when looking at the monitor?

Again, I'm no expert here at all so I'm not sure I'm interpreting that all correctly.

And I remember frequently wondering about the twist levels last season so I know it's been a subject of contention before. That's how I knew where to find the criteria.

I agree, the 45 degree angle thing must be a bit of an estimate since they probably aren't pulling out protractors But between the 45 degree thing and the new rule of no major knee bend, nearly everybody ends up executing a Lvl 3 and below twist. Yet the Lvl 4 twists were given out like hotcakes in the SP here to three teams I've never seen get a Lvl 4 twist before (including in other events within the past month), so I couldn't figure it out. As a bit of a pairs nerd, I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who wonders about these types of things.

 

[Skater Boy]

Was there just one current top ten team in this event? Sorry I am bad with memory.

 

[burntBREAD]

Was there just one current top ten team in this event? Sorry I am bad with memory.

Scimeca/Knierim, Denney/Frazier, and Peng/Zhang are all in the top ten rankings-wise. P/Z were 5th at Worlds and 8th at Olympics last year.

 

[wordsworthgirl]

I too was totally mesmerized, thrilled, & blown away by that magnificently dramatic, gothic, over-the-top brilliant program/performance of K & S. I LOVE them! and I think the intense, angsty free is a wonderful contrast to their ethereal and lyrical short which makes me admire them all the more. LOVE Moskvina and them!

I am also delighted by the emergence of Denney/Frazier, who were simply wonderful today- energetic, committed, sharp, strong, charismatic. I think they have immense potential and could be world medalists one day if they keep developing under the expert tutelage of their two excellent (and gorgeous) coaches: John Zimmerman and Ingo!

Finally, I was pleasantly surprisd by how charming & solid Aaron and Settlage were. I love their King and I program and I find them an attractive, engaging, and capable pair. She is much more balletic than her brother!

 

[treeloving]

Almost ANYTHING done by Moskvina will far exceed that done by Moser. In Moser's group their is no real innovation almost every program seems formulaic even with a theme. V/T have become complacent, their only concerns are the elements and doing them as spectacularly large as possible, nuances don't really exist. So I really really hope that Yuka and Sasha really show the world how great pairs skating is done. WOW.

:agree:

In my horribly bias and mean opinion, Moskovina and Moser should not even be in the same sentences .

Even K/S program that I don't like that much (such as this year), I found it to be better than those Morozov's programs for V/T.

 

[Alba]

Don't feel sorry for Zhang; he got a silver at anolympic game under controversy - they had a huge break after a bad mistake (fall). The new hair stye is a bit unsettling - I think it is meant for someone else or maybe it was a nexperiment. Sometiems his current teamlooks a bit scarey like he doing something illegal with a minor and that image is NOT a good one.

I feel more for Peng actually. He might very well be the better skater but he also look like he could be her dad.

:agree:

In my horribly bias and mean opinion, Moskovina and Moser should not even be in the same sentences .

Even K/S program that I don't like that much (such as this year), I found it to be better than those Morozov's programs for V/T.

Mozer is not a choreographer, like Moskvina. I'm not sure she does even coach. She is more like a manager and she does a great job.
The two are not to be compared, IMO. Completely two different things.