2019-20 Russian Men's figure skating

[skatenewbie]

this could be anyone game. The score are quite close, tomorrow will be interesting. I wonder though if the junior getting in the podium will RusFed send them to Europeans at least? Mozalev and Gumennik already have TES min since they competed in CS event

 

[Tolstoj]

True. Samarin - who has as much charisma as a wet sock - was held up and the only reason Ignatov is in first is because he’s the senior skater. Mozalev outskated him. Well, he outskated everyone. I think Mozalev will win, but it’ll be because the judges won’t have much of a choice. I’m not expecting any greatness from a senior man. Ignatov has serious stamina issues; he simply can’t make it through a free skate yet. I like Aliev, but....but.... but can he hold it together?

On a more positive.... I didn’t catch his name. Who was the dude that skated before Aliev? Absolutely disastrous skate. He didn’t get a combo in, fell twice, and popped his 3A. For some reason he caught my eye though. He’s musical and did an I-spin at the end. If he actually made the free skate, I’ll root for him.

EDIT: Uh, never mind. Got his name. Just noticed the starting order is posted above. I’m rooting for Samoilov yall!

Samoilov is often a mess, and both his programs are also messy in choreography, but when he lands his quads they are beautiful. Also great spinner. He deserves better programs imo.

The quad sal in the second half in the short was an unfortunate choice.

 

[lariko]

Let’s see who ends on the podium after the free, and if the junior division beats the senior, I think it’s too early to call it.

 

[RemyRose]

this could be anyone game. The score are quite close, tomorrow will be interesting. I wonder though if the junior getting in the podium will RusFed send them to Europeans at least? Mozalev and Gumennik already have TES min since they competed in CS event

Yes they will send them. Gold and Silver are guaranteed but if Mozy or Petr finish 3rd, well there is the coaching council and I don't see why they would not send them to Euros if Samarin/Aliev are 4th or below. Gorshkov already said they would send to Euros based off sporting principle and that's the top 3. The Cup Final can determine Worlds.

 

[nussnacker]

By coaches fault too in some cases.

Excuse me but Samsonov who struggles with the triple axel and rarely land a cheated quad Lutz and you put the quad in the short? That's not smart.

Not sure why you decided to single out Samsonov?
His Lutz is as „cheated“ as that of Plushenko, Aliev, Samarin, Gumennik, and many more.

He didn’t struggle with 3A last season, it’s a shame he has problems now, but even considering that, when he lands it, his 3A is a thing of a beauty.
Samsonov has landed all of his content cleanly this season at least once, and his consistency is fairly good compared to other men, also considering it’s his first international season.

 

[Tolstoj]

Not sure why you decided to single out Samsonov?
His Lutz is as „cheated“ as that of Plushenko, Aliev, Samarin, Gumennik, and many more.

He didn’t struggle with 3A last season, it’s a shame he has problems now, but even considering that, when he lands it, his 3A is a thing of a beauty.
Samsonov has landed all of his content cleanly this season at least once, and his consistency is fairly good compared to other men, also considering it’s his first international season.

Because it's the most obvious one.

He has been struggling this season with those elements, I've never seen him landing a clean perfect quad lutz, he has big issues with the landing and that's due to the lack of height, but he rotates so fast to barely make it happen. The others you mentioned are nowhere near as bad.

But it's not even that: in a field where most skaters can't skate cleanly (and that has been true for a while now, it's not just his season) I would have totally gone with a quadless program which would have been enough to stay in the mix for the podium, and he's capable of scoring 85-90 with no quads.

Lazukin has been rewarded here for ditching the quad lutz, in favour of the more consistent quad toe.

 

[glacial87]

Not sure why you decided to single out Samsonov?
His Lutz is as „cheated“ as that of Plushenko, Aliev, Samarin, Gumennik, and many more.

He didn’t struggle with 3A last season, it’s a shame he has problems now, but even considering that, when he lands it, his 3A is a thing of a beauty.
Samsonov has landed all of his content cleanly this season at least once, and his consistency is fairly good compared to other men, also considering it’s his first international season.

4 Lutz of Samarin is cheated?? :noshake:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oA1O22pOoYE&t=4m46s

 

[lariko]

Yes they will send them. Gold and Silver are guaranteed but if Mozy or Petr finish 3rd, well there is the coaching council and I don't see why they would not send them to Euros if Samarin/Aliev are 4th or below. Gorshkov already said they would send to Euros based off sporting principle and that's the top 3. The Cup Final can determine Worlds.

Oh, that’s great to hear. Fingers crossed they don’t back out of that decision. I assumed it was going to be Samarin and Aliev for Worlds, no matter how they place nationally.

 

[nussnacker]

Because it's the most obvious one.

He has been struggling this season with those elements, I've never seen him landing a clean perfect quad lutz, he has big issues with the landing and that's due to the lack of height, but he rotates so fast to barely make it happen. The others you mentioned are nowhere near as bad.

But it's not even that: in a field where most skaters can't skate cleanly (and that has been true for a while now, it's not just his season) I would have totally gone with a quadless program which would have been enough to stay in the mix for the podium, and he's capable of scoring 85-90 with no quads.

Lazukin has been rewarded here for ditching the quad lutz, in favour of the more consistent quad toe.

Forgot to name Lazukin there, but thanks for reminding me xD
We all know why *some* people are after Samsonov, poor boy happened to be coached by the wrong coach, hence a microscopic attention and additional criticism comes hand in hand. Had he been coached by Mishin, oh, no one would bat an eye.

He went for that content, because it’s a good training field, he’ll get nothing even if he podiums at senior nationals, he’s on his first year eligibility to junior worlds. If needed, he’ll go a safe way for Jubior Nationals, but senior nationals is the right time to experiment.

 

[nussnacker]

4 Lutz of Samarin is cheated?? :noshake:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oA1O22pOoYE&t=4m46s

I don’t personally have an issue with any lutzes, unless it’s a blatant flutz, hence I don’t even like calling them „cheated“, I just used the lingo of the person who replied to me.
But Samarin‘s lutz isn’t the same as the Lutz of Boyang Jin or Kolyada, that’s a fact.

 

[Tolstoj]

Forgot to name Lazukin there, but thanks for reminding me xD
We all know why *some* people are after Samsonov, poor boy happened to be coached by the wrong coach, hence a microscopic attention and additional criticism comes hand in hand. Had he been coached by Mishin, oh, no one would bat an eye.

He went for that content, because it’s a good training field, he’ll get nothing even if he podiums at senior nationals, he’s on his first year eligibility to junior worlds. If needed, he’ll go a safe way for Jubior Nationals, but senior nationals is the right time to experiment.

I'm not after anyone, it's just those coaches happen to be the one who says "girls better than the boys" -> well maybe your strategy for raising male skaters is broken.

To be fair it's not just one team, i've complained about this in the past for other skaters as well: some coaches in Russia think skaters can transition from barely consistent triples to quad lutz and quad flip left and right over night. That's not going to work.

Yes girls are doing it now, but after years of experience with a "trial and error" approach with the previous generations.

Other coaches (some in Russia too, it's not all bad) take a more step-by-step approach especially with the quads.

I do agree with the second part of the post though, if he doesn't medal here it's not the end of the world, i'm just saying he has (had? not sure cause judges saved him) a chance.

 

[RemyRose]

Oh, that’s great to hear. Fingers crossed they don’t back out of that decision. I assumed it was going to be Samarin and Aliev for Worlds, no matter how they place nationally.

I will have to look but normally they send the top 3 to Euros unless someone is age-ineligble. Last it happened I think it was with Kovtun who was quite young. And none of the top 3 are quadless, and Gumennik/Mozy are ready to move up so I don't think they will screw them over. It's not like they mowed the season and Samarin/Aliev had Nathan Chen like results.

Worlds team is based off Euros and maybe the Cup Final depending on who they sent to Euros and how they skated. So we can talk about Worlds after Euros.

 

[coldblueeyes]

In any way, it's too soon to make a prediction about the podium. Especially for men's. For all we know, Samarin could win it. Or Aliev. Or Ignatov, or none of them.

 

[Artemisa]

well .. I was hopping less pops and falls this year ... I'm happy for the 3 after the SP... but probably tomorrow we will have a rain of PCS... because if dimitri aliev or samarin can't win russian juniors .. it will be difficult for them to have a shot in worlds

 

[anonymoose_au]

I missed most of this because I didn't notice the reminder I set!

Relieved to see Lazukin in 5th though, yay!

Looking at the FS draw though I see Gleb has withdrawn, anyone know why?

 

[chanchan]

i miss kolyada so much. yes, he is messy, but he always did good jobs at worlds.

 

[lariko]

I missed most of this because I didn't notice the reminder I set!

Relieved to see Lazukin in 5th though, yay!

Looking at the FS draw though I see Gleb has withdrawn, anyone know why?

He WD almost immediately after performance, perhaps an injury or unsatisfying result?

 

[RemyRose]

He WD almost immediately after performance, perhaps an injury or unsatisfying result?

No he was sick.
https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1081720829.html

Skater Gleb Lutfullin will not perform in the free program at the Russian Championship 2020 due to illness.

 

[nussnacker]

I'm not after anyone, it's just those coaches happen to be the one who says "girls better than the boys" -> well maybe your strategy for raising male skaters is broken.

To be fair it's not just one team, i've complained about this in the past for other skaters as well: some coaches in Russia think skaters can transition from barely consistent triples to quad lutz and quad flip left and right over night. That's not going to work.

Yes girls are doing it now, but after years of experience with a "trial and error" approach with the previous generations.

Other coaches (some in Russia too, it's not all bad) take a more step-by-step approach especially with the quads.

I do agree with the second part of the post though, if he doesn't medal here it's not the end of the world, i'm just saying he has (had? not sure cause judges saved him) a chance.

Welp, whatever other Russian coaches do, with step-by-step approaches, seems they „fail“ at coaching boys and men just as well.
Or I don’t know what can explain the results this gpf.
well, I don’t actually think anyone’s failing at anything, but it’s not like Samsonov is the worst skater out there among men/boys in general, and certainly not among the russian ones. What’s up with these unrealistically high expectations from him in particular?
Samsonov is doing pretty well, I’ll repeat *in his first junior season*. Bronze medal at jgpf and a jwr, seems like a decent result to me. Give him a break, it’s not like Eteri‘s new junior ladies are an example of consistency either this season, they’re kids, they get nervous.
And I’m pretty sure „girls are better than boys“ wasn’t a serious remark either.

 

[coldblueeyes]

What’s up with these unrealistically high expectations from him in particular?

Well, intruding on the conversation, I was one of those that said people should keep their expectations in check regarding Samsonov. If you take a look at the threads from the past season, people already wanted to retire all the senior skaters to let the kid go in their place, and that's as ludicrous as it is downright silly. He was even lauded as something akin to Russia's only hope by russians(!!), so it's not surprising that the expectations fell short.

In the end, he's a kid, and his technique is a bit iffy at times, but a lot of his mistakes have to do with being in competition for the first time. It might go away eventually, or not. It's hard to make predictions for the men.