2019-20 South Korean Figure Skating

[TeeSaurus]

Comparing the SP results with international results earlier this season I don’t really see a huge difference in scoring (at least with regard to TES).

Concerning PCS: If Hanul had received her highest PCS score of 28.8, she would have, for example, beaten Jihun’s (and many other ladies’) PCS in this competition, which wouldn’t seem fair to me either. Also, she has scored lower PCS for similar performances this season.
On the other hand, Haein’s lowest PCS this season (at the JGPF) was only 0.29 points lower than here, and her performance today was solid and arguably better than at the JGPF.

I honestly don’t see clear evidence of bias here when the gap between the first 3 and the rest that we can see here could be (mainly) down to reputational PCS judging.

lord the audacity 0.21 GOE for squirtle's 3F+3T and uffin' 0.54 GOE for Seoyoung's layback https://twitter.com/XqlYlgFgUJBSGXS/status/1213340494744317952?s=19

I agree that some GOE scores are highly dubious.
I have said it before, but in what world is Jihun’s 2 Axel no higher than a +2 GOE?? (https://youtu.be/j_yClDBknyE?t=170)
I looked up the bullets again and it hits 3 bullets at the very least (good take-off/landing, effortless, steps before, length and height is very decent too) and up to all 6 depending on subjective judgement.

 

[Ichatdelune]

well true but Yelim and Eunsoo are not consistent right now, both are prone to UR too. If both skate like they did in GP then its up to grab for others (if clean of course)

Setting aside the fact that Yelim is technically the most consistent of the trio (she had 1 GP, you can't take only those two skates to determine whether she's consistent or not), you're forgetting one important factor: age. Haein, Seoyoung (Wi, my beloved), Seoyeon are all 14, Yeonjeong 13 and 11 months, and Ahsun turns 13 in June IIRC. Among the top 10 only Jihun and Haneul are age eligible, and Jihun is also (sigh) not truly consistent on top of chronically URing her jumps, so it's only Haneul. And judging by the low GOE she's been getting, unless both Yelim and Eunsoo completely bomb it's between those two. Just look at the PCS.

 

[bluefox]

I agree that yelim should have been second. I thought that her performance aspects especially were the best out of everyone. She has her own style and the way she moves her arms is so striking! I was so blown away. Haein did great and i was confident in this top 3 but i really felt that haein was that 3rd spot by a decent margin. If they were gonna put yelim at number 1 in rankings then what is the point in taking her down now?

 

[Ichatdelune]

I honestly don’t see clear evidence of bias here when the gap in PCS scoring that we can see here could be (mainly) down to reputational PCS judging.

It's less about PCS and more TES, but to go over PCS anyway: reputation judging is a problem on its own, especially during Nats (it's not like KSU is swayed over by coach politicking, KSU is already corrupt by themselves), but there's the issue of consistent underscoring. It took almost forever for Yelim's vastly improved speed to be taken into account, Haneul's performance qualities and overall smooth flow is always looked over, and Jihun never gets appreciated for her interpretation. Overall it's not about being biased for a skater (be it Haein or somebody else), it's about being biased against skaters. A whole lot of them.

And the main issue is GOE, it's unfair to use international scores for comparison when this time was a much better showing. Haein has pretty much been consistent throughout so it's not an issue for her, for others like, say, squirtle, there's a huge difference. It'd be better for me to put it like this: Young and Haein got deserving GOE for their elements, a lot of the top ladies did not. Need I lay out all the examples?

Korean Nats has an old history of... some say strictly judging, some say underscoring, our skaters. So when you are less underscored, it becomes "overscoring". At the ranking comp this year, while salty compared with the placements and actual skates the scores were mostly fair (my beloved Seoyoung's layback is never properly scored, she has great form, speed, centering, and transitions from spin to spin but nope GOE never goes over 1.00), it wasn't so today. From URs to edge calls, the judging isn't consistent with the calls nor the criteria for the GOE. Like... You should've seen their faces, Seoyoung, Haneul, Yelim, and squirtle.... Haein seemed more puzzled than happy with her score, and Young was smiling in a sheepish way, as if she thought she was overscored. The fans murmured before clapping, if clapping at all. Literally no lady was satisfied/content with her score. It was terrible.

 

[sweetice]

Haein, Seoyoung (Wi, my beloved), Seoyeon are all 14, Yeonjeong 13 and 11 months, and Ahsun turns 13 in June IIRC.

Thinking about the next JGP seasons, how old are Hee Won Seo and Si Woo Song ?

 

[TeeSaurus]

Does anyone know about Dabin? I saw her practice videos but it seems she withdrew from competition?
I feel a bit sheepish for not noticing earlier.

 

[Edwin]

Reading Ichatdelune's competition reports and her personal impressions leave me with the impression 'politicking' in SKU is far worse than anywhere else in the world.

How do international starts depend on home results? Can these starts be 'bought' or sabotaged by corruption? SKU does want to send its best skaters to GP and World Championships, right?

 

[bluemonday]

Clean&Clean&more Clean!!!Korean Nats is fiercely competitive, and every skater's skills are fabulous! I can't wait free program

 

[gotoschool]

Here are the Nationals SP scores for Young You and Haein Lee compared to their already relatively stingy top international scores this season. I thought their National performances were their best of the season and their videos and scores were the easiest to find so I picked them for comparison. Interesting that the real lowballing appears to be in PCS. 30 for Haien Lee and 31 for Young You when giving their strongest performances. Probably because these were the only options left to deflate because the elements were done so well.

Young You Nationals 76.23 Skate Canada 78.23
Haein Lee Nationals 68.2 JGP Croatia 69.2

The "technique for manipulation" is clear and seems to be ISU wide. Score less favored skaters from less favored federations like South Korea here even harsher with deflated scores at their own nationals under the bogus banner of "fair domestic scoring cover," then score skaters from the most favored federation or federations more generously at Nationals when they had already been scored more generously internationally, and then potentially use this "precedent" for further scoring inequality to more freely inflate and deflate going into the most important subsequent international competitions like Worlds, which is why I think in the presence of obvious unjust scoring one is left to decide for themselves what the real scores should be and what the best performances truly are.

I wish all Korean women the best in the freeskate. May they all skate clean with inspiration and may they finally be scored fairly.

 

[Ichatdelune]

Thinking about the next JGP seasons, how old are Hee Won Seo and Si Woo Song ?

Both are 6th graders, so probably 12 right now. If they appear for JGP qualifications after they get their 7th level that means they are junior eligible

 

[Ichatdelune]

Does anyone know about Dabin? I saw her practice videos but it seems she withdrew from competition?
I feel a bit sheepish for not noticing earlier.

The crowd went abuzz when the announcer announced that Dabin has withdrawn, you can sed my reaction in the Nats thread. I really, really hope it's nothing too serious and we get to see her on the ice again

 

[micromegas]

How many hours until ladies free skate begins?

 

[Ichatdelune]

How many hours until ladies free skate begins?

If you mean the beginning itself, after this Zamboni so about 15 minutes. If you're only interested in the last group, about 3 hours.

 

[Kara]

Rising from the dead to say that woooot, my fave Heewon won junior nationals! I absolutely LOVE her SP, especially the step sequence, and she is wonderful in more lyrical pieces. She's so fluid on the ice and has some of the best full body control out of all the Korean skaters, including seniors. Hopefully she can get a 3-3, but at least she has a 2a-3t for now.

As for the 2nd spot for Worlds, my favorite is Eunsoo, but this year has been a re-working one for her and I will not be upset if she doesn't go.

 

[Ichatdelune]

I will be heartbroken in all scenarios since the trio should be all going but one must be left out... (but will be hurt the most with the casualty being squirtle, sorry she is my darling after all)

 

[Colonel Green]

The "technique for manipulation" is clear and seems to be ISU wide. Score less favored skaters from less favored federations like South Korea here even harsher with deflated scores at their own nationals under the bogus banner of "fair domestic scoring cover,"

There are no foreign judges at national-level competitions. Korean nationals are judged exclusively by Koreans.

 

[Somi]

Final Ladies
1st Young You - FS: 143.67, Total: 220.20
2nd Haein Lee - FS: 136.36, Total: 204.56
3rd Yelim Kim - FS: 134.50, Total: 199.31
4th Seoyeong Wi
5th Kim Hanul
6th Ji Seoyeon
7th Eunsoo lim

 

[Ichatdelune]

Unofficial, but with the results:
WC - Young, Yelim / Junhwan
JWC - Haein, Seoyoung (Wi) / Sihyeong

 

[Ichatdelune]

As I head home, heartbroken and just holding it together because my other darling (and my beloved and my tesoro) did lovely, I write to inform y'all that the National main team for men remains Cha-Lee. Cha Junhwan, Lee Sihyeong, Lee Junhyeong, Cha Younghyun. Will update on the ladies (and the reserve team) later

Edit: Unofficial, but the main team for ladies

You Young, Lee Haein, Kim Yelim, Lim Eunsoo, Ji Seoyeon, Kim Haneul, Wi Seoyoung, To Jihun

Edit 2: Again, unofficial, but unless my calculations are a mess again the reserve team should be like this

Men: Park Sunghoon, Kim Hangil, Park Geonwoo
Ladies: Yun Ahsun, Mo Jiwon, Kim Minchae, Won Chaeeun, Lee Siwon, Lee Hyunsoo, Moon Boin, Kim Seoyoung (coach Kim Eunjoo, born April 25), Choi Soeun

Yeonjeong, despite her excellent showing, didn't make the cut (not making the free at rankings was a big blow). Oh well, if she gets through JGP qualifiers she can still get JGP spots, we should have aplenty.

 

[Lunalovesskating]

Happy for Young, Hae In, Seoyeong Wi, Jun Hwan and Yelim. Devastated for Eunsoo