2017 GPF Short Dance

[Bcash]

You do realise P/C and V/M are virtually tied on PCS and had the same bsae value? The difference of 0.5 could have gone either way. Plus V/M pattern looked less sharp today and they got less GOE than the Shibs on that element.
Unlike last season when V/M had a big cushion over P/C regardless, this season the scores are much more closer and can go either way. A lost level, a less sharp movement, a slight misstep and the order will change.
But I know, it is so much fun to go with the conspiracy theories that evil Europe sold its old soul to the devil for the gold medal in ice dance.[/QUOTE

Every and each commenter, expert, journalist, fan here and there, keeps repeating that judges have clearly shown their preference for P/C in light of the Olympics. So perhaps you’re the only one who believes the order is not already set.
By the way I don’t think in terms of “Europe”, but in terms of a group of countries doing this or that, yes.

Too funny. Which "experts" and "commentators"? And judges' preference for P/C can be explained by many factors, like the actual skating maybe?

I wonder what would you say if V/M scores higher in the FD.

 

[andromache]

I feel the complete opposite than you regarding the top two's programs. To me, Tessa and Scott's MR is awesome! I love the "theatricallity" (is that a word? xD) and the story sure is enough for me. Drama and sexiness in the beginning, the true feelings for each other in the middle and in the end she dies. Tragic. What's not to love about it?
But I'm honestly curious to what you feel is missing from the movie and should have been included? Could you tell me?

I also love theatricality and I do think V/M's Moulin Rouge is fabulous. But it feels less "profound/important" than Moonlight Sonata. It feels less "profound/important" than Mahler. The theatricality takes away from its raw, human authenticity, which I think is the strongest part of V/M's projection to the audience. It's a top notch program that employs a little too much melodrama (I love melodrama, personally) in comparison to what P/C are doing. Dance is subjective, and plenty of routines are melodramatic, but I think judges (older, more traditional) are more inclined to buy into the "high art" of Moonlight Sonata, when comparing two programs of such high quality.

(The part I feel is missing from the movie is the falling in love part - it just feels incomplete to me.)

 

[labgoat]

Madison's arm finishing, head movement, upper body actions - really resembling salsa style

I thought Madi & Evan looked more comfortable with their skate this time with the exception of the cautious twizzles. I do see a beige ankle wrap on Madison's one foot. Liked their music a lot and it is very fun and is growing on me. I even am getting used to the costume colors, just wishing Madison had less going on. She looked like an iguana given a shock at one point.

 

[Bcash]

Seriously though, are we really discussing Shib's scores now? Compared with who, H&D....C&L? Give me a break!
They're much better. Period.

Better in what? Slow skating or tacky costumes?

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Better in what? Slow skating or tacky costumes?

Among much other things. And I wouldn't be talking about speed if we were just going by today's performance. It's a myth that H/D were any faster. In fact in parts of the program, especially before and during their partial step, they at times plodding compared to the Shibs. H/D can be faster than the Shibs when the Shibs go tenative and H/D are on fire as we saw at Worlds last season, but that is not always the case. Sometimes H/D are in fact slow like most of last season and in this SD performance.

 

[labgoat]

Wonder if the Shibs are feeling bronze medal pressure. The G and S are so locked up for V/M and P/C, all the pressure is on the race for bronze right now. Plus, the Shibs are doing so much Team USA press, that's gotta add to the stress.

Alex did seem a bit tired, Maia seemed alright. Love their music and the blending of their steps into each other, no dead spots like C & L. They did seem slow, maybe a lot of travel catching up with them. Such a high in SA, naturally followed by a lull. Better to get that bad outing out now.

 

[Barb]

Better in what? Slow skating or tacky costumes?

Slow? , and tacky costumes? :noshake:, Maia's dress has been the most praised SD dress of the season.

 

[labgoat]

I absolutely love the "Sympathy for the Devil" part but it loses me when they slow down to the MIDI percussion beat for the rhumba. The Hotel California riffs bring me back in (that pause in the middle while they face each other... so sensual!) and then Oye Como Va loses me again. Bipolar program for me.

I agree like sympathy and hate the transition but am with it again for cali and am neutral on the last part. I am ok with blue dress except for leopard print which feels like overkill. Their skill level is so high and their expression so incredible. I do feel the program is almost hyperactive and could be cleaned up by reigning in the ambitious effort to lessen the risk and increase the synchronicity. Sometimes less is more.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

I think V/M are hitting it too hard in their movements for the SD that it looks too close to their Prince SD rather than a new Latin dance. I think they should work on lightening it up a bit allowing the dance to looks more effortless.

 

[Mrs. P]

I think V/M are hitting it too hard in their movements for the SD that it looks too close to their Prince SD rather than a new Latin dance. I think they should work on lightening it up a bit allowing the dance to looks more effortless.

Yes, especially their no-touch. Rolling Stones and Prince are actually pretty closely related -as both are rock songs, though Kiss is also considered a R&B song.

 

[Alex D]

"Every and each commenter, expert, journalist, fan here and there, keeps repeating that judges have clearly shown their preference for P/C in light of the Olympics."

Could it be, that they were just better this year? This is the first time P/C won the SD over V/M and even to my untrained eyes, they really were. V/M's SD was best at the Canadian Championships. They seemed to have a weaker performance after that. I think that the judges did a good job. You might still prefer V/M but nobody is out to get them. It is actually insulting to a great team like V/M to always go for a conspiracy theory when they happen to lose. Losing happens to the best! you do a disservice to your team, IMO.

Tessa said at the Press conference, that they put a lot of work into their FD since their last competition, so I wouldn´t count them out yet. There are always reasons why someone might be less focused or good. That being said, if the Canadians work on their FD, then it shows that they know how good the others are and that they can not rest.

If people don´t believe "our words" about the qualities of the French, then maybe the fans would listen to their idols?

I am as mentioned impartial, I like the US American teams more this season

 

[labgoat]

I really like that P/C went young and fresh with their SD. I hate the Sheeran section--neither the music nor the emotion that they're portraying works for me. The movements are not as sharp as V/M but loved the skating

I like the young fresh look of P & C. I even like Gaby's dress, it is fun and flirty. I saw more interaction between them in the non-touch step and more interpretation suggesting he is watching her which was lacking at first. After all the song lyrics are I'm in love with your body his earlier interpretation did not express this. They are slower and less complex than VM, but cleaner. Less desperate and frantic looking than VM perhaps?

 

[labgoat]

I thought V/M's SD looked a little cluttered today. I think the nerves of the event had that effect, the length of their edges seemed somewhat shorter and they were not a fluid as they were earlier in the season. P/C's choreography, which is no less demanding, but slightly more open, made it easier for them to just relax and go for it and it showed. Even though I found them a bit loose in areas, I could see the judges going with them. V/M's costumes also are too hard and busy, but it's these little things that matter at this level IMHO. Honourable mention to the Shibs, not as good as SA but let them learn from this experience, the nerves of steel muscles must always be engaged.

All others below the Shibs were just too tight today. Their nerves got the better of them. And TBH, it may have been more enjoyable to have anyone of the Russian teams or my serious crush, A. Poje and partner here than C/L. Why? Why is Anna almost always using her toe picks, not using her blade and hunching her shoulders? That was painful to watch, she looks like a junior ice dancer by comparison. Maddie and Evan were excessively cautious and Maddie and Zach were just too slow.

Let's hope everyone can loosen up a bit for the FD. But barring disaster as I've thought before Gold, Silver and Bronze looks to be P/C, V/M and Shibs, both for the GPF and the OG.

Cluttered is a good word. VM don't have to sell so hard, it distracts me from seeing the superior edges and the frantic ness seems to trigger small error. They are pushing too hard to prove themselves capable of running up the points rather than gaining credit from quality. A bit more Jason and less Zagitova might work better.

 

[machin]

NOT europe, FRANCE.

And Canada don't I suppose ?

Nobody in France know PC.

 

[machin]

In regards to your comment about Europe/Eastern Bloc - it wasn't just the Eastern Bloc - in 2002 the French and Russian judges traded votes for their respective Ice Dance and Pairs team and two pairs couples ended up sharing the gold medal because the French judge admitted she had been pressured to give her vote to Russia in exchange for Russia's vote for A&P in Ice Dance. So France has been known to collude with other judges!

Again that fantasy story. Le Gougne said she never admitted that and Cinquanta just twisted her words after she signed a piece of paper. And the facts aren't there either because the russian judges voted against AP. They won on a 5/4 split which clearly showed russian's allies were with them on it.

 

[Ice Diva]

Again that fantasy story. Le Gougne said she never admitted that and Cinquanta just twisted her words after she signed a piece of paper. And the facts aren't there either because the russian judges voted against AP. They won on a 5/4 split which clearly showed russian's allies were with them on it.

No, not a fantasy story, but a well documented one. Do your homework.

 

[NoNameFace]

Assuming they could, for financial reason, movements etc. Evgeny Platov as a coach. They don't need a coach to perform. They are borned for it, plus you work with the choreographer on those things. They just needed to stay fit and possibly even improve their technical skills. Platov, IMO, is really great coach for that. But I guess he's not fancy enough. Seriously though, at this point in their career? Anybody would've been a much better choice than your direct rival coaches, cheesy Marie Dubreil in particular.:sarcasm:

Ideas for programs, just a quick search but there are plenty other things one can choose:

Caravaggio
Dead Can Dance - Song of the Stars (Pina Bausch) (start at 2:09)
Human by Sevdaliza (choreography by Galen Hooks)

The last one for example I love it because it is such a great concept, and also it is quite an important subject, socially speaking. I can only imagine V&M performing smth like that. They would kill it.

thank You, Alba, a lot for your response!

I'm far too non-knowledgeable about coaches, but I really adore your programs' ideas posted...myself, I had also an idea of 'Pina' soundtrack as for FD or 'Misericordes' ballet choreographed by Christoper Wheeldon. Tessa and Scott are generally a walking inspiration regarding choreography/ideas for the program - they are very 'pliable' to different stuff and can pull off a lot of things, just not all of them are equally successful and effective competition-wise.

 

[Bcash]

thank You, Alba, a lot for your response!

I'm far too non-knowledgeable about coaches, but I really adore your programs' ideas posted...myself, I had also an idea of 'Pina' soundtrack as for FD or 'Misericordes' ballet choreographed by Christoper Wheeldon. Tessa and Scott are generally a walking inspiration regarding choreography/ideas for the program - they are very 'pliable' to different stuff and can pull off a lot of things, just not all of them are equally successful and effective competition-wise.

I remember the music used for that Wheeldon ballet being monotonous in structure. Probably not best suited for an ID program.

At this point, just strip the MR of the vocals and that could be a significant improvement on what they have now.

 

[NoNameFace]

I think those who think the Shibs were overscored just aren't used to the idea of the Shibs scoring that well. IMO, their improvements since even last season is quite noticeable, their SD is well-choreographed and highlights their strengths, they increased the amount of dance, and yet haven't sacrificed their clear strengths which a mix of excellent skating skills with polish, finish, and cleanliness in everything that they do (head to toe). It's quite noticeable when you actively watch them and compare how they execute everything, especially crossovers, turns, steps, etc. with the other bronze medal contenders (and IMO even some gold medal contenders). IMO, their SD was not overscored because their performance was only worse than their performance at Skate America and with a clean, inspired skate with all levels hit and with a performance quality taken up just a bit, this SD is worthy of being 81+.

Shibs are a pretty, damn cute couple to watch. The only couple who can get away skating to Coldplay over and over again. Enough said. They have worked hard and they have been consistent. I say, they deserve everything they are getting.

Many people have this weird attitude towards skaters who goes up on top. As long as they're underdogs, people think they are great skaters and they whine because of underscoring. Once they go on top, the same starts screaminng "overscored"! Fickle.

it's actually darn funny to see this kind of comments about Shibutanis being 'overscored' working their tushies off on execution, while - tsk, tsk - a lot of other teams, under various circumstance is getting a pass and an overscore on way worse performance, let alone execution...fun stuff, indeed.

we're getting to the point where their features, capabilities and 'money skills/characteristics' that they developed and improved are considered as their vices or areas of overscoring. What a logic, what a reasoning. Apparently, they are looking like kids in SD - so their youthfulness, 'now' factor is an issue. Then, they are getting their levels on place pretty much with polish and repetitiveness of a top team (including being the only team today who had lvl4 for BOTH step sequences) - people are frowing and throw 'overscored' card, probably because it's Shibutanis and some people did not registered yet the progress they've made and how personalized, thoughtful and adaptive their material became, ALSO for judges. Why oh why their strongest argument considered by people, as for technical sharpness in execution, is getting turned against them and makes people wondering over their scores? I mean, really? They are the team I have the most respect with now, because they had it twice or thrice as hard as some other ones - they are now where they are, scoring the way they are due to insane dedication, amount of work given to the thought about what team they want to be first, not what they should do to make judges/people love them. They showed, season after season, solid performances, gaining this individual spark in them more and more and they truly reached to the people, connected with them. And they are fighters, fierce competitiors behind these smiley faces - the way they approached both programs this season is truly commandable and leaves really no woder about being an owner of their own stuff they perform.

the biggest mistake - and issue - for me is to compare them and raise brows over their scores in relation to Canadians/French. Shibutanis are competing to the same rules like others, but they are doing it in their own way designed now, not really letting themselves to be put in some kind of corner or line, and that makes a difference between Shibs then and Shibs now; seems just that some people stayed - or would rather stay - in the past

 

[NoNameFace]

I remember the music used for that Wheeldon ballet being monotonous in structure. Probably not best suited for an ID program.

At this point, just strip the MR of the vocals and that could be a significant improvement on what they have now.

well, I'm aware of structure of that Wheeldon's piece, forgot to mention that this is only a potential idea to mix/match with something else; in all honesty, my very first 'pick' music wise for their FD was 'Ancora' by Ludovico Einaudi, which has range and differentiation of tempo to build on a movement structure, but now these are only wishes, better stuck to real life