2019-20 Russian Men's figure skating
- Thread starter RemyRose
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Quoting myself to say that it was very unpredictable. But also tiring to see the guys struggling so much in their programs - especially the spins and step sequences. They lose a world of points in them. Glad to see Dima getting the title, but to me, the winner of the day was Danielian, only for how well he skated after his SP. But it's also a testament to how bad he can skate from time to time.
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I miss him too. Messy and falls and pops and he still draws me in his skate with his on-ice personality. Let's hope he comes next season more powerful after letting his body to recover. And i still hope secretly that he will involve Mishin or Lambiel in getting his jumps stable...
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How do you know that they don't? THIS annoys me every time i have to read here. Lets see first how many years the girls pushing for 4 turns can keep this regime of training first. Second: boys and girls grow up different, get through puberty different. It is the same in gymnastics: men needs longer than the woman to get to the best of their skills, to stablize their body.
Third: not every club has the resources Sanco has.
Forth: when you have a large number to pick the best you will get better results than when you has a smaller number. Meaning that there are more girls starting to skate seriously for figure skating compared to boys. Boys can choose the more financially rewarding and with longer lasting career ice hockey.
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Preach!
More or less what i expected, nailed a lot of positions looking back at the predictions i posted few pages back.
I'm super happy for Dima's first title, it has been a very good season for him so far, GPF performance was definitely a fluke.
Positively surprised by Danielian's free skate, that was what i thought he was always capable of, we just didn't see it until now. Very good jumps (maybe the first quad sal was a bit under, but the second one was clean), and some of the best skating skills really, the performance was there too, difficult transitions, what a talent!
Then Samarin, if we judge solely what's on the ice, i don't really understand why he is 3rd: both the short program and the free skate had mistakes and falls, and most importantly outside the jumps, there were crossovers done on messy posture, with no transitions, no performance, choreography is lacking, the jumps were all telegraphed,... and yet huge components. There were 2-3 skaters better than him here in my mind.
Even Ignatov was a bit messy in his free and tired towards the end but at least he didn't fall, i think he could have been 3rd here but i guess Russia really wanted Samarin to go to Worlds, so mission accomplished.
You misunderstood me, i'm criticizing because i very much think Samsonov could win Junior Worlds, he could win Nationals, he has the talent and the training to make that happen!
It's just a matter of good guidance, understanding what you need to do in order to skate clean, adjusting little things like the leg wrap on the jumps, and perhaps understanding that attempting over and over a jump you can rarely land is maybe not worth it.
I think this is a learning process for both the skater and the coaches, since we haven't seen yet this team coaching male skaters at the very top level.
I'm super happy for Dima's first title, it has been a very good season for him so far, GPF performance was definitely a fluke.
Positively surprised by Danielian's free skate, that was what i thought he was always capable of, we just didn't see it until now. Very good jumps (maybe the first quad sal was a bit under, but the second one was clean), and some of the best skating skills really, the performance was there too, difficult transitions, what a talent!
Then Samarin, if we judge solely what's on the ice, i don't really understand why he is 3rd: both the short program and the free skate had mistakes and falls, and most importantly outside the jumps, there were crossovers done on messy posture, with no transitions, no performance, choreography is lacking, the jumps were all telegraphed,... and yet huge components. There were 2-3 skaters better than him here in my mind.
Even Ignatov was a bit messy in his free and tired towards the end but at least he didn't fall, i think he could have been 3rd here but i guess Russia really wanted Samarin to go to Worlds, so mission accomplished.
You misunderstood me, i'm criticizing because i very much think Samsonov could win Junior Worlds, he could win Nationals, he has the talent and the training to make that happen!
It's just a matter of good guidance, understanding what you need to do in order to skate clean, adjusting little things like the leg wrap on the jumps, and perhaps understanding that attempting over and over a jump you can rarely land is maybe not worth it.
I think this is a learning process for both the skater and the coaches, since we haven't seen yet this team coaching male skaters at the very top level.
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Well, I couldn’t have guessed the placements if my life depended on it, but at least I managed to guess 5 out of top 6 in the game on the forum. Loved how Danielian skated that wonderful program, ecstatic for the ever unpredictable Aliev, growing healthy respect for Samarin’s grit. I love both Mozalev and Samsonov to bits, and I wish they were just a touch more stable there. Ignatov’s problems with stamina are quite obvious, but I hope it solidifies his position in Russia and opens GP assignments for him.
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Samarin was a hot mess here and I like Ignatov’s overall skating more but Samarin has a much better chance of 3 spots with Aliev than Ignatov does because of sheer firepower. Plus I wanna see him bust out that quad lutz Euler series!
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In light of the discussion earlier, I decided to look at Daniil's success rate on the 3A and 4Lz this season. I included his two JGP events, the Denis Ten event, the JGPF and Russian Nationals.
4Lz
- Ur fall x3 (one with a !)
- Ur x1
- step out x1
- Landed, small -ve GOE x1
4F
- Ur fall x1
- Ur x1
3A
- 3A-eu-3S clean x1
- 3A-3T clean x2
- 3A clean x5
- 3A hand down, step out x2 (one was a +REP)
- 3A step out x1
- 3A fall x2
- 1A x1
So, for the 4Lz he's only rotated it on 2/6 attempts, and hasn't got positive GOE yet (though the JGPF attempt was only -0.16). And the 4F he's only tried a couple of times, but it hasn't been rotated yet.
For the 3A, it's been clean (solo or in combo) on 8/14 attempts (57%). It's always called rotated. So it's not that consistent for him yet, but doing it in competition definitely makes sense. I get why he's doing the 4Lz, but putting it in the SP here was probably not the best idea, given the success rate (of course, it gives him more experience with it in competition - I just mean in terms of doing well at Nationals).
4Lz
- Ur fall x3 (one with a !)
- Ur x1
- step out x1
- Landed, small -ve GOE x1
4F
- Ur fall x1
- Ur x1
3A
- 3A-eu-3S clean x1
- 3A-3T clean x2
- 3A clean x5
- 3A hand down, step out x2 (one was a +REP)
- 3A step out x1
- 3A fall x2
- 1A x1
So, for the 4Lz he's only rotated it on 2/6 attempts, and hasn't got positive GOE yet (though the JGPF attempt was only -0.16). And the 4F he's only tried a couple of times, but it hasn't been rotated yet.
For the 3A, it's been clean (solo or in combo) on 8/14 attempts (57%). It's always called rotated. So it's not that consistent for him yet, but doing it in competition definitely makes sense. I get why he's doing the 4Lz, but putting it in the SP here was probably not the best idea, given the success rate (of course, it gives him more experience with it in competition - I just mean in terms of doing well at Nationals).
I could agree if it wasn't for the fact that only a few of the man ( or almost none) could do there program without falls or pops ... it's not a question of if they can do a 4 or 3A they can do that .. it's not a problem of puberty ... Dima and Samarin are very grown up ... I don't think is even a problem of resources ... I think the problem is that they win with falls over and over again ... like it's a hobby ... Dima and Samarin sould have won without any trouble ... but even a junior got in the middle ... I think the next generation of juniors have other kind of mentality and that gives me some kind of hope ... they are good and they are fierce ... Samsonov ... I don't know if he will be good or not in seniors but he takes every defeat very serious ( even if a lot for his age) but that what is missing in seniors ... I was happy for the results of juniors in the seniors
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I really hope Ignatov can skate at Europeans at least!! But oh well... he had the chances and blew it up
I think Ignatov skated very well considering his lead after sp and having to skate as last in fs... He did not give up, IMO. I´m hoping that he will be given a slot at Europeans. At WC Russia has only two slots, right?
Anyway, his apparent lack of stamina in the fs worries me. It shows e.g. that he is not doing
enough FULL run-throughs of his fs-program. In sp he shows how great he can be if there is no lack of stamina!
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Rukavicin's skaters don't have the best stamina in the game. Even Dima struggles with his programs.
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With temperatures of -30 and lower outside, any air will be very dry and that might affect skaters as much as altitude in their lung function?
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Super thrilled for Dmitri! Congrats on the first national title! It kind of just fell into his lap and it wasn't pretty put a wins a win! 
I was impressed with Danielian. He's got real potential and I look forward to seeing how he develops
And last I think Ignatov was robbed of the bronze. Samarin was totally over marked in both short and long and while Ignatov had issues of his own at least he didn't fall. I think they should have given the bronze to Ignatov but then name Samarin to worlds. In my honest opinion the federation would have been totally justified at doing so but I guess they didn't want their new golden boy off the podium completely.
I was impressed with Danielian. He's got real potential and I look forward to seeing how he develops
And last I think Ignatov was robbed of the bronze. Samarin was totally over marked in both short and long and while Ignatov had issues of his own at least he didn't fall. I think they should have given the bronze to Ignatov but then name Samarin to worlds. In my honest opinion the federation would have been totally justified at doing so but I guess they didn't want their new golden boy off the podium completely.
Yeah it's the approach, they don't push skaters to do that many run-throughs or it's rarely a full run-through because clearly they don't practice spins enough, considering they all struggle with spins.
It has positives and negatives, it's quite indicative that overall Rukavicin was the best coach in Russia for men's skating if you look at the results (Aliev 1st, Ignatov 4th), i like their work with the quads.
Besides Aliev's 4lutz which is more about the quick rotation, all their other quads both from Aliev and Ignatov have great height, distance, minimal pre-rotation,... it's how a quad should be.
They wanted to show what they've been working on, i'm sure Russia would have been praising Eteri for a week if he managed to skate a clean short.
The reality is that both the 4ltz and the 4flip looked a bit undercooked for him, trying so hard to snatch that half turn more into those triples. (which is the same Shoma does on his quad flip and quad loop, and the same of the girls)
If they stay with him as the body grows adjusting the technique, he will be able to land them more naturally.
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